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Old May 30, 2006, 09:51 PM // 21:51   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thom
I've monked with a pet and a bow before on low level missions. I have serious builds as well, but you really don't need an uber build to monk most missions. Taking a pet along is kind of like taking a cap sig; you level the pet and keep the party alive. In a group with two monks, I could monk sufficiently well with 4 monk skills (AoE, Boon, RoF, Guardian).

I'm not saying that monks should bring stupid builds, but you can do your job in PvE without optimizing.
I'm not arguing about the use of the skill slot, but the "blackout" detriment to the team when your pet dies. This is the reason why monks shouldn't rebirth in the middle of battle, because it prevents them from healing the team when it is needed.

It's not about the build. It's not about the skill slot. It's about the party relying on you to be able to heal them, not be blacked out.

If you want to level your pet, why not use henches, or at least let your team know before the mission that you have a pet.
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Old May 30, 2006, 10:05 PM // 22:05   #142
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I doubt you had an assassin out of the blue pm you calling names when unprovoked. They are generally so happy to get a group they are quiet.
Im not kidding you! We formed a group and just went outside (hit the portal that is). It's not like we did half of the quest, spent 30 min and there was something to be mad at me!

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You want someone to make a thread to bash a class that came crippled from anet? Pathetic.
I'd say that class suits them well.
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Bad players exist in every class and right now, assassins seem to contain the highest proportion of bad players unfortunately.
Yep. It's the same problem i had with warriors in Prophecies. Each class had bad players. Warriors seemed to contain majority tho.

Funny thing is, that situation with elite cap, i had in Prophecies. Yes yes, it was warrior

Quote:
and more then one of those monks (myself included) will not monk for PUGs anymore because of all the stupidity and abuse they get.
Well, i dont use PUGs anymore regardless what class i am. I just spent 1 hour today doing mission, and i dont want to explain why mission failed 1 min before the end. I'll stick to henchies or friends.
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Quote:
Maybe if you were a better player, you could handle people's inexperience in such low level areas. Maybe you could actually help them instead.
wow thx man you're so helpful, why dont u go there then and help those poor people? If i was a better player yada yada yada. Do i look like a charity to you? I just want to play the game with normal people. Normal people. U know.

But im just curious, how exactly would you "help" a warrior in your team, who runs in at the enemy mob, turns on FRENZY, and gets killed? And he keeps doing that even after you rez him? U know, not all species respond to visual and auditory stimuli.

I can teach the inexperienced, but it doesnt mean i invented the cure for stupidity.

Quote:
BTW, congratulations on "totally pwn"ing the Minister Cho's Estate mission. That's quite an accomplishment
It was the 2nd mission, and yes it's an accomplishment considering i had to do it 3x because some people dont know what it means "DONT RUSH IN PLS".


Anyhow, this is monk discussion i guess so enough of this.
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Old May 30, 2006, 10:38 PM // 22:38   #143
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Originally Posted by leprekan
I know at least 100 people in guild wars. The funny thing is ALL of them have a monk myself included. I would bet this is closer to the norm for most players.
So why don't you play it more often? That's right, it is bloody HARD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leprekan
With that being said ... why in the $#@! do you monks think you are special? GET OVER YOURSELF.
We are special, just go to any mission town and see for yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leprekan
There are just as many bonehead monks as there are other classes.
Sure... lots of Wamohs with echo mending and frenzy welding their godly Zodiac swords and Exalted Shields if you get the drift.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leprekan
If Anet ever fixes the healer henchies these types of threads will go bye bye.
Nothing will ever prevent healer henches from heading right into mobs to heal that warrior that decided to charge through 5 warrior mobs to attack a monk. *Period*

Quote:
Originally Posted by leprekan
The ego maniacs posting about how bad their team mates are tend to be the first to rage quit a group.
Erm, because when you are clicking on every party member in turn you *actually* get to see what the hell everyone is doing? Like for instance using Healing Signet when he is under heavy fire, surrounded by 6 mobs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leprekan
I will take a pug loaded with morons that stay over an ego maniac that rages the group the first sign of trouble.
Enjoy doing the same missions in excess of 10 times to get on with the story, and perhaps more than 100 times to get mastery, cya!
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Old May 30, 2006, 10:44 PM // 22:44   #144
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Originally Posted by leprekan
I also have a monk with more than 1,000 hours played on it ... I have NEVER gotten "abuse" for my healing. If you do perhaps it is time to reflect upon YOUR skill set. The high and mighty routine is so worn out it isn't funny.
Do me a favor and lay off the personal attacks?

I dont act 'high and mighty' at all if you actually bothered to read this thread, I clearly state there are many bad monks out there and that I dont consider myself anything special, I think I do allright though and I'm impressed that you can outheal, say for example, someone who is not infused and manages to aggro 6 Jade's and 2 Mursaat all by yourself..I sure as hell couldnt and yes, believe it or not, that person called me a noob for not being able to heal him. You would ofcourse have done better, right?
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Old May 30, 2006, 11:08 PM // 23:08   #145
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Originally Posted by Servant of Kali
wow thx man you're so helpful
Don't mention it. That's what I'm here for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Servant of Kali
But im just curious, how exactly would you "help" a warrior in your team, who runs in at the enemy mob, turns on FRENZY, and gets killed? And he keeps doing that even after you rez him?
Tell him not to run ahead and turn on frenzy. Since he continued to do it, I will assume you changed groups afterwards, and happened to fail the next time with an entirely new team. Since if you stayed with that player, that is the problem. But regardless, you can't judge a profession based on the players you encounter on the first two missions.

I've finished the game a number of times now, with 5 different professions including twice with monks and once with an assassin, and I can't remember a single instance of that type of behavior in any of the harder missions. Sure, people have made mistakes now and again, but we recover and it's not a condemnable offense.

To say you won't accept assassins or whatever in your PUG's is unfortunate. Sometimes I wonder if the highest accomplishment in this game is to get in a PUG as an assassin in the last few missions. I wish less people had your attitude.

Oh, and to keep this on topic, as a monk, I don't mind assassins in the group, but I ask them about their skills before the mission starts. And, as a monk, I play pretty much exclusively in PUGs after the starter island, so I am not one of those who hates PUGs. One thing I don't like about PUGs, whether I'm a monk or not, is people who say either "STFU" or "NOOB". Either of these screams immature brat to me.
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Old May 30, 2006, 11:19 PM // 23:19   #146
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Speaking of bad monks, i met 1 today in FoW. He was quite amusing tbh. He started the group by 'trying' to sound like he knew what he was on about. Although after saying he had 500 ectos... started to sound too much like a farmer. Although after our group accidently lured all 3 patrols and a group of Abyssal/Rangers and had to retreat... he made himself so obvious that he was an absolute idiot. His reason for not running? He had Hammstring on him
After telling him that Shadow Warriors don't even have Hammstring he told me to lay off. Then after we ressed, the next group of Abyssal/Rangers we came across he actually said 'I have Hammstring on me!'. Not only we're there no warriors in sight but the skill would then be called Crippled... and even then lasts for 3 seconds if your fighting Snarling Driftwood! Shortly after telling him to stop making stuff up he leaves.
Oddly enough no-one seemed to care... We even went on to clear half the battlefield and clear the forge with only 1 monk.

What do we have there, a bad monk, and a good monk. With people like that around do you ever wonder WHY monks are entitled to complain? If the other monk is utterly useless, the pressure gets put entirely on you. If the other warrior is useless, people don't care anywhere near as much.

If you have somehow managed to get through playing 1000 hours on your monk without been abused, i would have to say you have never made human contact on this game. It is IMPOSSIBLE to not get abused by complete idiots if you play a monk in groups regularly, well, pugs anyway. if you've somehow got through 1000 hours playing only with friends, why did you bother to post that statement.
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Old May 30, 2006, 11:45 PM // 23:45   #147
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Originally Posted by Kern Wolf
This statement is obviously a joke. I think what you mean to say is, YOU might get away with a crappy-ass build. I don't make crappy-ass builds with my monk.
And as far as needing little coffee breaks, it's not a race I'm undertaking; I want to FINISH the mission. Those little coffee breaks may give other members of your group time to regen, and maybe talk a little strategy (you know what that is, right?)
Heh, strategy in PvE? Now I know who's joking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markaedw
Which do you suggest, I am unable to find any for healing spells, other than the sigs.
Let's see, Mantra of Recall, Energy Drain, Drain Enchantment, Inspired Hex and Offering of Blood (if you're careful) are some of the best choices. No, they are not healing spells, but that's why characters have secondaries. Signet of Devotion is a nice 0-energy heal. Word of Healing is nice in terms of energy-efficiency if you get the full heal out of it.

And the greatest energy management of all: not overhealing. I love watching monks furiously hit orison on the smallest drop of a health bar and then they ping their energy like 20 times.

Also, please don't use minus-energy-regen items as your main set ("look dudes, my energy is 75 out of 75! I win!!!). This makes baby Jesus cry.
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Old May 31, 2006, 01:47 AM // 01:47   #148
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Originally Posted by Orbberius
Let's see, Mantra of Recall, Energy Drain, Drain Enchantment, Inspired Hex and Offering of Blood (if you're careful) are some of the best choices. No, they are not healing spells, but that's why characters have secondaries. Signet of Devotion is a nice 0-energy heal. Word of Healing is nice in terms of energy-efficiency if you get the full heal out of it.
Lets see:

Mantra of Recall; not bad ends just when I need the energy boost, a little tuff for my faction monk to get, but still duable, but I would have to give up Word of Healing.

Energy Drain; agian pretty good, I would rather save my elite for WoH.

Drain Enchantment; not a bad one ofcourse PvE isn't Know for it's enchantmented enimies which makes it unreliable.

Inspired Hex; thats a good one, the 20 second cooldown is problem matic

Offering of Blood; you're kidding right, you want me to sacrifice 20% of my health.
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Old May 31, 2006, 01:54 AM // 01:54   #149
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If you're using word of healing, you don't really need the energy managment.

Offering of blood is an elite, and still effective.

Enchants are plentiful if you know who to look for in Cantha

No, I have not monked in Cantha, I'm paranoid of my lack of ability
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Old May 31, 2006, 02:26 AM // 02:26   #150
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I decided to give 'sins another try today. A group of 2 monks, a 'sin, and a few others, w/mo, ele, etc. We managed to get halfway through arborstone, however, when the 'sin nearly died (us two monks saved him) he rage quit.

Assasins are the crippled class, but W/Mo can be the same. Since when do W/Mo use heal area ? >_< that's self-defeating. But a W/Mo did it. I've seen an assasin take the healing from 2 monks- (WoH, Heal Other) spammed, and barely survive. It's like watching a 55s health with healing breeze and no ps.

But monks can also be partly to blame. Monk isn't a day-dreaming class. You can't just hold an xfire conversation, or whisper to your buds.
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Old May 31, 2006, 02:37 AM // 02:37   #151
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Originally Posted by Orbberius
Let's see, Mantra of Recall, Energy Drain, Drain Enchantment, Inspired Hex and Offering of Blood
Let's see our Pro Build Master.. all of these are Prophecies skills, so what if your monk happened to be a Factions only player?
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Old May 31, 2006, 02:46 AM // 02:46   #152
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I created a monk since Saturday and I can say all what Summer has said is true

Happen to me (Bold) during my first experience, step by step

Quote:
Originally Posted by Summer
10. No we don't want to buy your suPAR LEET staff OF HEALing
PoWAR!@# We already have our gear and if we are searching we'll use
auctions or other means. Don't hold up the party trying to show us your uber
gearz!

Sorry I prefer wielding my little Kephket Refuge than anyone who try to trade the Wenslauss' Faith

9. Don't spread out - Look it's not *that* important that you, as the
warrior, run to the NEXT group of monsters to show us how 1337 you are by
killing them all by yourself. You put monsters in between yourself and the
monks, you die. Remember there is no I in Team!!

Try to tell them Summer: Dont rush plz. They dont know Rush in their dictionnary

8. If you get aggro, don't hide behind us. Look... it's simple, there are
usually lots of places to run if a monster hits you but when you run behind
your monks... well, guess who gets hit!? We can't keep you alive if we are
dead.

The shout "retreat!" is a bad idea when the monks are dead

7. If we do die, please please please do not rebirth us in the middle of
a battle. You see, if we are lucky enough to run away from the monster
standing on top of us when we are rezzed, we start with about 1/4 of our
health, ZERO energy and an eight second delay of our skills.

Before that, I never thought how monks felt after Rebirth. I got my first experience of Rebirth and I can say we die faster soon we rez if we cant heal now

6. Don't stand in unnecessary spots. We are not all tanks. If your skills
hit from afar, why do you think you need to stand next to the warrior to cast
them?

Backrun option stills inexist to you? C'mon

5. Dont start out with gogogogo - When we are ready we'll tell you.
Impatience makes us hate you from the start. Please don't act like you are
9... Maybe you are, I don't know.

Starting with gogogo really makes me sick (no matter which Char I play). Patience is a Vertue. You dont have patience, to bad for you. /out

4. Don't expect us to join a group without another monk. Being a monk
is hard work and takes constant attention. Don't be offended because we
won't join your group of 6 warriors and 1 ranger.

One monk is only a team of 4 to 6 players (until crystal desert). When you arrive with 8 players, you better get 2 monks instead 1.

3. Don't continously invite us to your group. If we wanted to play with
you we would have joined your group the first time. Inviting us over and over
doesn't make us more eager to help you.

Enter D'Alessio Seaboard with my Cathan monk....... 6 invitations!...... hmmm ok... remove one and put again

2. If you die don't sit there and shout "Rez me! Rez me!!" We are fully
aware that you are dead, there is a big dark red patch under your name
where your health *used* to be. When the time is right we will rez you.

lol, true, try to rez someone in the middle of a battle in Vizunah Square

1. If you die do not blame us!! Look things happen, but do you think
you make us more eager to heal if you complain that we let you die? Don't
count on it, I'll save my energy to heal someone that appreciates their monks.

Got my first blame (not surprise by Wammo (no brain, not the smarter one) the only thing I always regret is: Damn, I forgot Vengeance!
Last edited by Francis Demeules; May 31, 2006 at 12:45 PM // 12:45..
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Old May 31, 2006, 02:54 AM // 02:54   #153
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Originally Posted by Francis Demeules
I created a monk since Saturday and I can say all what Summer has said is true

Happen to me (Bold) during my first experience, step by step
But hey, you gotta admit that it was extremely easy to find groups as a monk. I finally tacked in the last elite skill today for my new Canthan monk, all GW:P skills, all GW:F skills, 9/13 mastery in Cantha, 9/25 bonuses in Tyria (well the worst 9 I'd say, the rest are easy ones like Northern wall etc)

All that in a mere 35 hours of play.

In contrast my new ranger is still stuck in Marketplace, and I really dread to go back and endure the experience of having to LFG for eons.
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Old May 31, 2006, 05:14 AM // 05:14   #154
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Originally Posted by Servant of Kali
wow thx man you're so helpful, why dont u go there then and help those poor people? If i was a better player yada yada yada. Do i look like a charity to you? I just want to play the game with normal people. Normal people. U know.

But im just curious, how exactly would you "help" a warrior in your team, who runs in at the enemy mob, turns on FRENZY, and gets killed? And he keeps doing that even after you rez him? U know, not all species respond to visual and auditory stimuli.

I can teach the inexperienced, but it doesnt mean i invented the cure for stupidity.
Because if you wre a Warrior, in your first ever Guild Wars game, in the first ever mission, you would intuitively know not to use Frenzy, right? Because you would know 100% the game mechanics, after mere minutes of play, to realize that the 2x damage to self isn't worth the 33% damage boost to others, right?

Gimmie a break.
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Old May 31, 2006, 05:24 AM // 05:24   #155
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Originally Posted by SasquatchTimeToDie
Because if you wre a Warrior, in your first ever Guild Wars game, in the first ever mission, you would intuitively know not to use Frenzy, right? Because you would know 100% the game mechanics, after mere minutes of play, to realize that the 2x damage to self isn't worth the 33% damage boost to others, right?

Gimmie a break.
You know what?

I'd say YES to your weak attempt at sacarasm. You know why? Because long long before your very first mission, you would have had the chance to do not only the skill quests for your primary, but the skill quests for your secondary as well, before you could even have done Master Cho's estate.

But anyway we are talking about lvl 20 content here, meaning missions that are in mainland Cantha.

If you cannot somehow fathom that frenzy = you die quick after fighting through hordes of afflicted on starter isles, well, good luck to you, you certainly do lack something up there.
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Old May 31, 2006, 08:45 AM // 08:45   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thom
The position monks are naturally in as support characters and health managers gives them a unique perspective within a pug.

Monks actually have to pay attention to the location and health of other players, so they will catch everyone's mistakes. (You also see the skills being cast by players getting owned... often amusing.) This can be incredibly frustrating therefore the original list.

The evidence of a monk failing is fairly evident and bad players will blame this failure on a monk. The lack of efficient damage leads to longer battles, less energy and eventual failure. This is almost always overlook by a bad PUG.

You really don't need an optimized player to run a monk, but it requires a bit more awareness and decision making. Rebirth is a good skill at times. Boon prot can be run with 13 DF (often happens in pvp f you are rune swapping). Amazingly you can skill monk efficiently with a pet (it is one skill slot and 0 attirbutes). If people scrutinized any build as much as they scrutinized monks, PuGs would be much more efficient.

Monks aren't angry without cause, but any one good monk should be able to take a group through all but the toughest missions. I see no problem with such a monk charging for his services; runners do it regularly.
totally /agree to that

in fact, I totally /agree with the points the op listed too. whether someone cosideres them arrogant and elitist or not. some effect other classes or all, which makes them even more true not false.

there are moderate to good players of every class and well, bad too. all errors that can be made are already listed in various posts in this thread. I've played all classes except elementalist in every scenario guildwars offers, so I think it's nonexaggerated to say I'm an experienced guildwars player.

to come to the point I'd like to say: it seems there are lots of new players in factions who insist to make their errors with great devotion and resist to listen and learn anything from me or any of the other experienced players during missioning and questing through cantha, which is just ridiculous.

playing myself a monk with PUGs, which I do from time to time since it's more often amusing than annoying me - and I like to help some poor mesmers a bit further , I'd like to remind you. I see everything you do . play yourself a monk, you'll see.

Peace
Last edited by Keats; May 31, 2006 at 08:55 AM // 08:55..
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Old May 31, 2006, 09:32 AM // 09:32   #157
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About "Monk elitism": Why does it happen that every time someone mentions some of the problems that come with playing a monk someone shouts "elitist!"? Do these people think that if you create a monk you'll lose all of your other character slots?
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Old May 31, 2006, 09:56 AM // 09:56   #158
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I wont complain or moan at the amount of threads put back to this, but honestly isnt time we all started to get along???

I mean come on, I have been playing this game from its beta testing and have had a few occasions where the "top ten" MAY apply.

It seems totally pointless to me when any one gets blamed for that professions job. Healers heal , tanks tank. Thats that. For all those 1337 players out there , get a life cos this is a game. For all you know that "noob" monk may also be a 9 year old kid having some fun on a game that is meant to be fun and enjoyed.

In all my experience I can say that most PUG's i go with will get the job done no matter how hairy the situation gets. However it is abundantly clear that these 1337 players are hurting the game and its community.

As such i would say to anyone who has suffered at the hands of these co called elitist's to **** off and get a life.

As to your top ten summer, yea these are exectable however iam sure all those mesmers , assasins and wammos will be placing their top ten entries as well soon enough.
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Old May 31, 2006, 12:06 PM // 12:06   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by generik
But hey, you gotta admit that it was extremely easy to find groups as a monk. I finally tacked in the last elite skill today for my new Canthan monk, all GW:P skills, all GW:F skills, 9/13 mastery in Cantha, 9/25 bonuses in Tyria (well the worst 9 I'd say, the rest are easy ones like Northern wall etc)

All that in a mere 35 hours of play.

In contrast my new ranger is still stuck in Marketplace, and I really dread to go back and endure the experience of having to LFG for eons.
Yes it easy to find one but it doesn't mean they're good too. I was blind from monks when I played my other char. I lied once to remove all these invitations last night: I chatted in local that I was Smiter (See your list drop quickly) and begin to tell "Prot monk LFG"

Of topic about monk: if you're stuck with your ranger not finding a group, look my mesmer, found no group and Im at Cavalon/House zu Hetzer quite faster than everybody who search another monks (take Hench if you can't afford a monk and dont stay here about 3hour for 1 monk player)
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Old May 31, 2006, 12:38 PM // 12:38   #160
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Originally Posted by Orbberius
Heh, strategy in PvE? Now I know who's joking.
Pardon me, Patton...some of us like to look before we leap...
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